(Originally posted to Let's Play Sacntuary)
#71, originally posted May 19 2016, 09:38 AM
Route B/C—Session 16, part 4: Notre Dame
Ishtar has a vision of the mother she never knew, courtesy of a certain Crystal. Later, she and Sami find out the truth about the immunosuppressants. Yumi!Ishtar makes an appeal for peace to Ea. Yayoi talks about the moon base and underground cities. Nergal has to remind Ishtar about the immunosuppressants. LEM gives a warning about someone Ishtar rescued.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
homepage (2)
And now we know that Ishtar's mother was heterochromatic as well. It seems it really is a genetic trait. As for the "virgin birth" thing, how did that come about? After all, it's not something that usually happens by itself in humans. I'm still assuming parthenogenesis. It would probably be something induced; therefore, I'm waiting to see if we'll be told that someone did something to Ishtar's mother. What was their purpose for doing so?
BTW, I thought that Ishtar saw a vision of HE and Yumi!Ishtar before. What happened to that vision? It's just disappeared, like the scene where Sami had been found crying by the river after running out that was replaced by her meeting up with Kosuke. Are these disappeared scenes gone because they weren't true, or something?
recovery (2)
Nergal is picking up the explanation about the use of immunosuppressants with implants. Not much we didn't already get from route D. However, Nergal's speculation that he's "the only unauthorized person who's noticed this fact" is interesting. If that's true, then how did he find out himself? I suppose it has something to do with his little underground operation.
-The World- (2)
A choice in a fragmentary scene? I wonder what the significance of it is. I chose "I believe there's still hope." I'm pretty sure the other one can't lead to a bad ending, since I've already gotten both bad endings of this route.
-The Empress- (2)
Deep underground cities? Hmm? Sounds challenging. I mean, there would be issues of keeping such places supplied with certain resources, as well as disposal of waste products. To some extent, we take those things for granted here on the surface. Not that there doesn't have to be some effort put in. But with something underground, the problems would be greater. You'd need to circulate air, for one thing, or else have plenty of vegetation and the lighting to sustain photosynthesis. In which case, you also need a power source. From what? Surface power? Some sort of nuclear power? Maybe they'd have working fusion reactors by then, so nuclear waste isn't an issue. There are also the potential social issues they actually discuss here, but the technical side is what I think of right away.
-Death- and -The Star- (2)
Nergal is reminding Ishtar that he doesn't use immunosuppressants. I think he's referring back to what he said in route B. Little does he know what Yumi!Ishtar is going through. Well, I guess she should still remember in this state; she's just a bit confused.
(Incidentally, I just thought of a nickname: how about "Yumishtar"? Huh? Huh?
...
...
Hmmm...)
LEM talks about Nabu. When she talks about Shamash, she's probably referring to Aoi Mitsuhiko, the original owner of that handle, not his son. Well, it looks like he succeeded in getting him killed. And he's an extreme threat. So, is Nabu the real villain of this whole story, then?
Have I mentioned how many of the "I"s in the text are now colored? No? Well, that's because I'm only really starting to notice. They're not just in the 1.0 endings and such; they seem to be in all the text. I wonder what exactly is the trigger. But more importantly, who do the colors all represent? We have some idea for blue, red, yellow, and green, even if we don't know the actual identity of the HE personality (the one that isn't Hinata, I mean). I'm assuming the yellow one actually is Yumi, though that might not be the case. There's also black, and that seems to be used by the one LEM, the one that Ishtar recognizes as "Onee-sama", i.e. Ereshkigal. Have I missed anyone?
Anyway, I guess this only started once I got all of the 1.0 endings. I'll have to keep an eye out for discrepancies that might show up.
And now we know that Ishtar's mother was heterochromatic as well. It seems it really is a genetic trait. As for the "virgin birth" thing, how did that come about? After all, it's not something that usually happens by itself in humans. I'm still assuming parthenogenesis. It would probably be something induced; therefore, I'm waiting to see if we'll be told that someone did something to Ishtar's mother. What was their purpose for doing so?
BTW, I thought that Ishtar saw a vision of HE and Yumi!Ishtar before. What happened to that vision? It's just disappeared, like the scene where Sami had been found crying by the river after running out that was replaced by her meeting up with Kosuke. Are these disappeared scenes gone because they weren't true, or something?
recovery (2)
Nergal is picking up the explanation about the use of immunosuppressants with implants. Not much we didn't already get from route D. However, Nergal's speculation that he's "the only unauthorized person who's noticed this fact" is interesting. If that's true, then how did he find out himself? I suppose it has something to do with his little underground operation.
-The World- (2)
A choice in a fragmentary scene? I wonder what the significance of it is. I chose "I believe there's still hope." I'm pretty sure the other one can't lead to a bad ending, since I've already gotten both bad endings of this route.
-The Empress- (2)
Deep underground cities? Hmm? Sounds challenging. I mean, there would be issues of keeping such places supplied with certain resources, as well as disposal of waste products. To some extent, we take those things for granted here on the surface. Not that there doesn't have to be some effort put in. But with something underground, the problems would be greater. You'd need to circulate air, for one thing, or else have plenty of vegetation and the lighting to sustain photosynthesis. In which case, you also need a power source. From what? Surface power? Some sort of nuclear power? Maybe they'd have working fusion reactors by then, so nuclear waste isn't an issue. There are also the potential social issues they actually discuss here, but the technical side is what I think of right away.
-Death- and -The Star- (2)
Nergal is reminding Ishtar that he doesn't use immunosuppressants. I think he's referring back to what he said in route B. Little does he know what Yumi!Ishtar is going through. Well, I guess she should still remember in this state; she's just a bit confused.
(Incidentally, I just thought of a nickname: how about "Yumishtar"? Huh? Huh?
...
...
Hmmm...)
LEM talks about Nabu. When she talks about Shamash, she's probably referring to Aoi Mitsuhiko, the original owner of that handle, not his son. Well, it looks like he succeeded in getting him killed. And he's an extreme threat. So, is Nabu the real villain of this whole story, then?
Have I mentioned how many of the "I"s in the text are now colored? No? Well, that's because I'm only really starting to notice. They're not just in the 1.0 endings and such; they seem to be in all the text. I wonder what exactly is the trigger. But more importantly, who do the colors all represent? We have some idea for blue, red, yellow, and green, even if we don't know the actual identity of the HE personality (the one that isn't Hinata, I mean). I'm assuming the yellow one actually is Yumi, though that might not be the case. There's also black, and that seems to be used by the one LEM, the one that Ishtar recognizes as "Onee-sama", i.e. Ereshkigal. Have I missed anyone?
Anyway, I guess this only started once I got all of the 1.0 endings. I'll have to keep an eye out for discrepancies that might show up.
#72, originally posted May 20 2016, 11:40 AM
Route C/D—Session 16, part 5: Confusing Mythology
Yumishtar sees more of the fighting at the Ziggurat. Then she experiences a weird glitch, and gets a call from Tammuz. She recalls the story of Zu and Ningirsu, and later how Hinata and HE are like Gilgamesh and Enkidu and herself a priestess of Ishtar. Over in route D, Yayoi relates Japanese folklore about sisters, and Yumishtar brings up stories about Ishtar, Shamash, and Anu. Yayoi reveals the identity of Shamash. I find the other bad ending of route D.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
-Arc de Triomphe- (2)
Well, this is weird. Yumishtar finds her gun has mysteriously warped back to its holster. This same thing happens to HE at the start of route D, when he first (well, last as far as the world is concerned) meets Ishtar. So, what is this, a glitch in the game? It seems a bit dangerous; if it happened at an inopportune moment, it would put whoever it happened to in danger. Well, this does seem to be Babylon, so maybe it's not really that bad. But on the other hand, things are a bit weird at this point. Maybe they would actually die... somehow.
But besides that, this seems to be a hint that something strange is going on. I mean, even stranger than the obvious stuff. The point where the gun left her hand was when the fragmentary scene ended and we went back to the original part of the route. And she noticed the discrepancy, to some extent. What this could mean, I don't know. But I feel it's pretty important.
(Route D epilogue) (2)
So, as far as mythological connections: Yumi = priestess of Ishtar, Hinata = Gilgamesh, HE = Enkidu, and of course, Ishtar = Ishtar. Good to know.
DOCTOR (2)
"...they were originally one being that was split into two, like they were twins." Twins, you say? Like Hinata and Mutsuki are twins, and Sami and Yumi are also twins. That description would definitely apply to the latter two, who are identical—i.e. monozygotic—twins, that are split from a single zygote, as opposed to fraternal—dizygotic—twins, that result from two separate ova being fertilized. While identical twins inherit exactly the same genes and thus have all the same traits, including sex, fraternal twins are as different as any other siblings.
Shamash and Ishtar, twins? Hmm, this is confusing.
Ah, yes. Shamash is the protector of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. But wait. If Hinata takes the role of Gilgamesh, what about Shamash? Hinata takes on the handle himself in route A, though his father Mitsuhiko originally owned it. But at this point Mitsuhiko seems to be dead. Can Hinata still log in as (or change identity to) Shamash and give HE protection that way?
And Shamash and Ishtar's father is Anu. Argh! Why did they have to make this so confusing?!
The part about Shamash being Mitsuhiko, we already know. But thanks for confirming it, Yayoi.
Well, this is weird. Yumishtar finds her gun has mysteriously warped back to its holster. This same thing happens to HE at the start of route D, when he first (well, last as far as the world is concerned) meets Ishtar. So, what is this, a glitch in the game? It seems a bit dangerous; if it happened at an inopportune moment, it would put whoever it happened to in danger. Well, this does seem to be Babylon, so maybe it's not really that bad. But on the other hand, things are a bit weird at this point. Maybe they would actually die... somehow.
But besides that, this seems to be a hint that something strange is going on. I mean, even stranger than the obvious stuff. The point where the gun left her hand was when the fragmentary scene ended and we went back to the original part of the route. And she noticed the discrepancy, to some extent. What this could mean, I don't know. But I feel it's pretty important.
(Route D epilogue) (2)
So, as far as mythological connections: Yumi = priestess of Ishtar, Hinata = Gilgamesh, HE = Enkidu, and of course, Ishtar = Ishtar. Good to know.
DOCTOR (2)
"...they were originally one being that was split into two, like they were twins." Twins, you say? Like Hinata and Mutsuki are twins, and Sami and Yumi are also twins. That description would definitely apply to the latter two, who are identical—i.e. monozygotic—twins, that are split from a single zygote, as opposed to fraternal—dizygotic—twins, that result from two separate ova being fertilized. While identical twins inherit exactly the same genes and thus have all the same traits, including sex, fraternal twins are as different as any other siblings.
Shamash and Ishtar, twins? Hmm, this is confusing.
Ah, yes. Shamash is the protector of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. But wait. If Hinata takes the role of Gilgamesh, what about Shamash? Hinata takes on the handle himself in route A, though his father Mitsuhiko originally owned it. But at this point Mitsuhiko seems to be dead. Can Hinata still log in as (or change identity to) Shamash and give HE protection that way?
And Shamash and Ishtar's father is Anu. Argh! Why did they have to make this so confusing?!
The part about Shamash being Mitsuhiko, we already know. But thanks for confirming it, Yayoi.
Route A/B/C/D—Session 16 (full)
#73, originally posted May 23 2016, 09:14 AM
It's the time of awakening
...apparently. It's time for route E. If you thought things were interesting before, they're about to get even more so, in many ways. And probably much more confusing. So prepare yourselves.
Route E—Session 17, part 1: Aftermath
The "World" is in its "womb", waiting to be born. The aftermath of the events of routes A and B (and the prelude to routes C and D, I believe), seen from the perspectives of several people.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Endless Dream Interval
Who is this, I wonder? Is it the same entity as the mysterious eye?
The "fetus" repeats the first three lines from this VN, as if we've returned to the starting point.
jihad
Wow. Going after their families? Killing the members of Criminal and eXarch is one thing. Not that it's right, but Criminal was fighting Code and thus took the risk of getting killed. Not sure what I can say about the eXarch staff. But I think killing their families is definitely crossing the line.
But wait, Enlil decides to spare Hinata's mother. Why? Supposedly because there's no honor in it. Was she the only innocent one? That's hard to believe.
Fountain of Memes
So, Yumi was able to communicate successfully with HE. So then, what was up with the gas?
That voice in the pod. Who is that? Could it be Ereshkigal? So I guess the one LEM really is her Shadow, then? And what's the story with the pod, anyway? Was there some medical problem where her body had to be preserved in such a way? Or is the reason closer to Mutsuki's?
Who is this, I wonder? Is it the same entity as the mysterious eye?
The "fetus" repeats the first three lines from this VN, as if we've returned to the starting point.
jihad
Wow. Going after their families? Killing the members of Criminal and eXarch is one thing. Not that it's right, but Criminal was fighting Code and thus took the risk of getting killed. Not sure what I can say about the eXarch staff. But I think killing their families is definitely crossing the line.
But wait, Enlil decides to spare Hinata's mother. Why? Supposedly because there's no honor in it. Was she the only innocent one? That's hard to believe.
Fountain of Memes
So, Yumi was able to communicate successfully with HE. So then, what was up with the gas?
That voice in the pod. Who is that? Could it be Ereshkigal? So I guess the one LEM really is her Shadow, then? And what's the story with the pod, anyway? Was there some medical problem where her body had to be preserved in such a way? Or is the reason closer to Mutsuki's?
#74, originally posted May 24 2016, 11:49 AM
Route E—Session 17, part 2: Recovery
As Ishtar is suffocating to death, she hears the voice of Ereshkigal calling out her name, then Yumi begging her to keep living. Hinata is coming back from a dream, but is shocked to find himself changed. Yumi is recovering from her own near-death experience, but is devastated to realize she is the only survivor among her friends. Hinata is introduced to Investigator Miyata.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
DEAD MAN'S HAND
This scene reminds me of one in
Survivor Syndrome
I can't help noticing this scene is three weeks earlier than the one before it. There's no way Yayoi wasted any time before getting Hinata to Nergal (and in fact, the encounter with Enlil was already over a week before this scene), so the difference must be the time it took him to recover after his cyborg operation(s).
So, if Yumi's artificial eye matches her natural eye, then how do we explain it when she takes on Ishtar's appearance? At that point, it looks blue. Actually, I wonder how the whole altered appearance thing works. Is it all some sort of projection?
This scene reminds me of one in
Spoiler for another VN
Coco's route in Ever17.
I can't help feeling that like that other scene, this one is meant to be shocking. But because we already know about Hinata and HE, it's not at all surprising. It might have been, though, had we gone only once through each route and then straight on to this route (I say, "might", but even then, there is a pretty big hint right at the 0.1 ending of route C). I'm pretty sure that can be done, and it seems as though that was the expected way to do it.Survivor Syndrome
I can't help noticing this scene is three weeks earlier than the one before it. There's no way Yayoi wasted any time before getting Hinata to Nergal (and in fact, the encounter with Enlil was already over a week before this scene), so the difference must be the time it took him to recover after his cyborg operation(s).
So, if Yumi's artificial eye matches her natural eye, then how do we explain it when she takes on Ishtar's appearance? At that point, it looks blue. Actually, I wonder how the whole altered appearance thing works. Is it all some sort of projection?
#75, originally posted May 26 2016, 08:39 AM
Route E—Session 17, part 3: Hundredth Terrorist
Hinata searches for information about what happened during the month he was recovering. Discovering that many people he knew have been killed sends him into a rage in which he cries out desperately for power. HE is asking for direction. Yumi mopes in despair within her hideout. Finally, she decides to call upon HE.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
phantom pain
Hinata finds out that "{Sin} has died ... on may 25th." Does he realize this is referring to the drug dealer that Enlil executed during Code's eXarch raid? If his memory is intact, he *should* remember seeing the guy, finding out that their "Sin" was not Mutsuki. Now that I go back and look, though, I guess he wasn't sure whether the guy actually was called "Sin". So he still can't tell.
Like in the glossary, it lists quite a few cities, 17 in total. It then says there are 20. Well, heck, if you're going to get that close, why not just go all the way to 20, rather than stopping just short of it?
So Code managed to take over the branch office. But could such an act really work? Where were the police in all of this? And if the police were insufficient, what about the JSDF? How could they all let something like this stand? I guess the Code force left before the authorities could arrive and evaded them. Of course, it didn't help that eXarch deliberately kept a lid on the whole thing.
Regarding the Hundredth Monkey Effect explanation: I've gone over this already, so I won't repeat myself. The initial part is, I think, not too far from correct. As far as I could tell from skimming the paper, the learning took place only by the offspring imitating their mothers, not from imitating everyone around them. But okay, that's an excusable error. Where it starts talking about the sudden jump of knowledge to other regions is, I'm pretty sure, where it firmly departs from the actual research.
Regarding fads that explode at certain points in time: how does this demonstrate an "invisible network"? People who follow fads will tend to jump on them as soon as they learn of them, so if there are rapid publication media like, say, the Internet, this can easily explain how such people can quickly learn about fads at about the same time (namely, the point where someone decides to publish it), and in turn, how they can end up following them at about the same time. Come on, Mr. Nakazawa, you can do better than this. But maybe he knew it's nonsense, and chose to put it in the story anyway? Whatever the case, it still bothers me, not because the idea goes against scientific consensus, but because the depth of research about real-world concepts builds up great expectations, only for certain things to betray them.
Hmm. I don't suppose the story is going to explain how cybernetics would cause biochemical reactions. What are they made of that they can do that? What exactly are the reactants? The cybernetics themselves couldn't be among them, could they? Because then in order for significant quantities of Destrudo and Libido to come out, the materials of the parts would have to be quickly consumed. Well, maybe these machines incorporate biochemical processes? It's all unclear, and I can't think of how what we're being told could work.
I must say, though, these passages are doing a good job of confusing me as to whose side is the right one. Code seems to have legitimate grievances against eXarch, which probably is doing extremely unethical things, to put it mildly. A lot of ICs agree, and end up joining or sympathizing. But at the same time, they're causing a lot of death and destruction, and many others, like Hinata and the members of Criminal, have to oppose them.
Perhaps this is the point, though. None of them is necessarily "the right side". They're fighting each other, when eXarch is their common enemy. Despite this, it's pretty hard to excuse the actions of Code and especially Enlil.
Why did Yayoi tell Yumi that Hinata died? Did she not take both of them to Nergal? In fact, according to the date in that rooftop scene, Hinata was stabbed by Enlil on the same night as the eXarch raid (May 25). Did Yayoi not actually know about it? No, what am I saying? She was right there!
Hinata finds out that "{Sin} has died ... on may 25th." Does he realize this is referring to the drug dealer that Enlil executed during Code's eXarch raid? If his memory is intact, he *should* remember seeing the guy, finding out that their "Sin" was not Mutsuki. Now that I go back and look, though, I guess he wasn't sure whether the guy actually was called "Sin". So he still can't tell.
Like in the glossary, it lists quite a few cities, 17 in total. It then says there are 20. Well, heck, if you're going to get that close, why not just go all the way to 20, rather than stopping just short of it?
So Code managed to take over the branch office. But could such an act really work? Where were the police in all of this? And if the police were insufficient, what about the JSDF? How could they all let something like this stand? I guess the Code force left before the authorities could arrive and evaded them. Of course, it didn't help that eXarch deliberately kept a lid on the whole thing.
Regarding the Hundredth Monkey Effect explanation: I've gone over this already, so I won't repeat myself. The initial part is, I think, not too far from correct. As far as I could tell from skimming the paper, the learning took place only by the offspring imitating their mothers, not from imitating everyone around them. But okay, that's an excusable error. Where it starts talking about the sudden jump of knowledge to other regions is, I'm pretty sure, where it firmly departs from the actual research.
Regarding fads that explode at certain points in time: how does this demonstrate an "invisible network"? People who follow fads will tend to jump on them as soon as they learn of them, so if there are rapid publication media like, say, the Internet, this can easily explain how such people can quickly learn about fads at about the same time (namely, the point where someone decides to publish it), and in turn, how they can end up following them at about the same time. Come on, Mr. Nakazawa, you can do better than this. But maybe he knew it's nonsense, and chose to put it in the story anyway? Whatever the case, it still bothers me, not because the idea goes against scientific consensus, but because the depth of research about real-world concepts builds up great expectations, only for certain things to betray them.
Hmm. I don't suppose the story is going to explain how cybernetics would cause biochemical reactions. What are they made of that they can do that? What exactly are the reactants? The cybernetics themselves couldn't be among them, could they? Because then in order for significant quantities of Destrudo and Libido to come out, the materials of the parts would have to be quickly consumed. Well, maybe these machines incorporate biochemical processes? It's all unclear, and I can't think of how what we're being told could work.
I must say, though, these passages are doing a good job of confusing me as to whose side is the right one. Code seems to have legitimate grievances against eXarch, which probably is doing extremely unethical things, to put it mildly. A lot of ICs agree, and end up joining or sympathizing. But at the same time, they're causing a lot of death and destruction, and many others, like Hinata and the members of Criminal, have to oppose them.
Perhaps this is the point, though. None of them is necessarily "the right side". They're fighting each other, when eXarch is their common enemy. Despite this, it's pretty hard to excuse the actions of Code and especially Enlil.
Why did Yayoi tell Yumi that Hinata died? Did she not take both of them to Nergal? In fact, according to the date in that rooftop scene, Hinata was stabbed by Enlil on the same night as the eXarch raid (May 25). Did Yayoi not actually know about it? No, what am I saying? She was right there!
#76, originally posted May 27 2016, 08:28 AM
Route E—Session 17, part 4: Convergence
Everything is trying to converge. The boy and the girl are reaching for each other. The beginning is the end; the end is the beginning. ... I guess. Ishtar descends to the underworld and meets a certain someone special. Yumi hears her voice calling out to her. HE wants to gather his fragments and be reformed. HE makes a deal with Hinata, Ishtar, and Yumi. Ereshkigal gives Ishtar a mission, explaining who the true enemy is. HE and Hinata are joined, causing a problem for Miyata. The rosary searches for HE and gets a signal. Yumi takes on her role. "The time has come." The meaning of the colored "I"s explained.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Reverie, Enlightenment, Moonlight (REM)
(Nice one. LEM, Remu, REM... REM is also REM sleep, a state in which dreams occur. And this is a dream... maybe.)
"My one and only..." This narrator seems to have some special relationship to HE. What could that be? In the first place, who is the narrator? Could it be Ereshkigal?
Is this supposed to be the fetus?
Looks like an adult rather than a fetus, though it is in the fetal position. It looks a bit like Ishtar, although it could also be her mother. Or maybe it's Ereshkigal? We see later in this part that her hair is about as long as Ishtar's. The one CG showing her mother is a closeup of her face, so we can't tell how long her hair was, but it was pretty long, too.
yomotsu hirasaka
(The title refers to the slope leading down from the land of the living to Yomi, the underworld in Shinto.)
Does this mean Ereshkigal died? No wonder Ishtar couldn't find her.
I can't help noticing that Ereshkigal is naked, while Ishtar is fully clothed, in this CG. Now that I think about it, something is off about this. In the story Ishtar just recited, the mythological Ishtar is the one who descends to the underworld and gets stripped of her clothes. But here, Ereshkigal is the naked one, and neither of them is locking the other away and cursing her with sixty diseases.
"exempt from all laws of classical physics; bound only by quantum theory." This is a strange thing to say. All "laws of physics" are theories to explain the way reality works. None of them could necessarily be called truth, but some are more accurate than others. Classical theories fail to explain many phenomena; quantum theories essentially replace rather than supplement them (though classical theories can still be applied where they work), and are thought to be applicable almost everywhere in the universe. So, to say that one is bound by quantum theory but not classical theory, while not incorrect, is strange. The reverse should never be true. Well, I guess it can be interpreted as saying that she no longer exists in a form to which classical physics can be applied, as with elementary particles and such.
sheep-goat effect
(Had to look up this title, too. This is an effect supposedly observed in parapsychological research, where those who believe in psychic abilities score significantly above chance in tests of those abilities, while those who don't believe in them score significantly below chance.)
Ereshkigal resurrrects (?) HE by retrieving his fragments, or something like that (or, in other words, he is being "defragmented"), and joins with Hinata. Hinata wants to save Mutsuki, and Ereshkigal sends Yumi to the past with Ishtar's help. What is Yumi's purpose in this? I guess that is to guide Hinata/HE on the proper path to his goal. But what is that path? Hopefully we'll find out. As it stands, after he defeats Enlil, he is guided to the pod with Mutsuki in it, and they're able to talk to each other; that's where route D stops.
The Chalice is Filled
Hello, Mutsuki. Who's that in your arms?
And hello, Yumishtar! What an interesting mashup this is.
As the Ishtar picture is fuzzing out, it sounds like she says something like "aru". It's weird, because there's no accompanying text. I don't know what it means. "Aru" can mean "to exist", which is tempting to apply. The problem is that it apparently is applied only to inanimate objects.
"Before long, realities and falsehoods will be jumbled together into an undiscernable mix." Thanks a lot, story! Then again, were they really discernible until now?
"1 and 0 are beginning to overlap." What, like in a quantum computer?
"I" Keyword: For anyone not familiar with this, the listed pronouns are some of the most common, but there are actually quite a few others.
(Nice one. LEM, Remu, REM... REM is also REM sleep, a state in which dreams occur. And this is a dream... maybe.)
"My one and only..." This narrator seems to have some special relationship to HE. What could that be? In the first place, who is the narrator? Could it be Ereshkigal?
Is this supposed to be the fetus?
Looks like an adult rather than a fetus, though it is in the fetal position. It looks a bit like Ishtar, although it could also be her mother. Or maybe it's Ereshkigal? We see later in this part that her hair is about as long as Ishtar's. The one CG showing her mother is a closeup of her face, so we can't tell how long her hair was, but it was pretty long, too.
yomotsu hirasaka
(The title refers to the slope leading down from the land of the living to Yomi, the underworld in Shinto.)
Does this mean Ereshkigal died? No wonder Ishtar couldn't find her.
I can't help noticing that Ereshkigal is naked, while Ishtar is fully clothed, in this CG. Now that I think about it, something is off about this. In the story Ishtar just recited, the mythological Ishtar is the one who descends to the underworld and gets stripped of her clothes. But here, Ereshkigal is the naked one, and neither of them is locking the other away and cursing her with sixty diseases.
"exempt from all laws of classical physics; bound only by quantum theory." This is a strange thing to say. All "laws of physics" are theories to explain the way reality works. None of them could necessarily be called truth, but some are more accurate than others. Classical theories fail to explain many phenomena; quantum theories essentially replace rather than supplement them (though classical theories can still be applied where they work), and are thought to be applicable almost everywhere in the universe. So, to say that one is bound by quantum theory but not classical theory, while not incorrect, is strange. The reverse should never be true. Well, I guess it can be interpreted as saying that she no longer exists in a form to which classical physics can be applied, as with elementary particles and such.
sheep-goat effect
(Had to look up this title, too. This is an effect supposedly observed in parapsychological research, where those who believe in psychic abilities score significantly above chance in tests of those abilities, while those who don't believe in them score significantly below chance.)
Ereshkigal resurrrects (?) HE by retrieving his fragments, or something like that (or, in other words, he is being "defragmented"), and joins with Hinata. Hinata wants to save Mutsuki, and Ereshkigal sends Yumi to the past with Ishtar's help. What is Yumi's purpose in this? I guess that is to guide Hinata/HE on the proper path to his goal. But what is that path? Hopefully we'll find out. As it stands, after he defeats Enlil, he is guided to the pod with Mutsuki in it, and they're able to talk to each other; that's where route D stops.
The Chalice is Filled
Hello, Mutsuki. Who's that in your arms?
And hello, Yumishtar! What an interesting mashup this is.
As the Ishtar picture is fuzzing out, it sounds like she says something like "aru". It's weird, because there's no accompanying text. I don't know what it means. "Aru" can mean "to exist", which is tempting to apply. The problem is that it apparently is applied only to inanimate objects.
"Before long, realities and falsehoods will be jumbled together into an undiscernable mix." Thanks a lot, story! Then again, were they really discernible until now?
"1 and 0 are beginning to overlap." What, like in a quantum computer?
"I" Keyword: For anyone not familiar with this, the listed pronouns are some of the most common, but there are actually quite a few others.
#77, originally posted May 28 2016, 11:49 AM
Route E—Session 17, part 5: Genesis
Investigator Miyata rushes to the building where Hinata used to be housed, only to find it trashed and Hinata gone. He recalls an earlier encounter with Yayoi. Meanwhile, HE listens to a recording of Yayoi telling the story of how she met the other members of Anunnaki and of the MMORPG Babylon's creation.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
The Chalice is Filled
One of Masayuki's family members is apparently someone named "Kana". Probably the wife who was mentioned. Don't know if it's relevant, but I'll try to remember.
ENUMA ELISH
(Or Enûma Eliš. The Babylonian creation myth.)
Yayoi has made a recording, but she seems to be addressing someone specific. It wouldn't be Hinata, as he knows her already, but she has to introduce herself. Is it HE, then? It seems odd for some reason. Perhaps because he doesn't show much of a personality, it's hard to think of him as a person. Also, something she says at some point gave me the impression the recording wasn't meant for him alone.
I totally understand what Yayoi says about the straightforwardness of computers. Now, some people reading this might be surprised by this view and might instead view computers as very mysterious and capricious. I hear this view quite a bit. I think what this stems from, though, is not a fundamental capriciousness of computers. Rather, it is due to a mismatch in the mindset of a person with the nature of the software they use. At some level, they are expecting (probably reinforced by the interface and other factors) the software to behave somewhat like a human, when in reality it behaves more or less like a machine, albeit often a very complex one.
However, people with mindsets like Yayoi's and mine see computers more as the machines they are and are driven to learn about how they work. Any observed capriciousness is usually due to either a hardware problem, a system so complex that its behaviors interact in complex and perhaps incorrect ways, or an interface that is too complex or incompatible with the user's way of thinking. This is what I think, anyway.
"[Computers] don't try to lie or be vague about their problems." Again, this may be surprising to hear. She is speaking at a fundamental level. Computer systems do sometimes lie and/or be vague to their users. But this is not the computer's fault, but rather it is due to the software, the instructions of the programmer(s). Those of us who care enough will try to avoid such software.
A server in Baghdad. What a coincidence ...or more likely not at all. Baghdad is very near the site of ancient Babylon, just 85 km (53 mi) north of it!
"As long as you can't go back in time, that is." Oh, you.
"It really was quite the coincidence that her handle came from the same roots as ours." Was it really?
I'm not going to try to get into what the different colors Imaginary Vision sees mean, nor what might cause people to emit the various energies that are perceived as those colors. But I do wonder what the significance of ICs being colorless is.
Who was Ereshkigal looking for? Is it someone we've seen already? It sounds as if it was no specific person, as Yayoi goes on to say Ereshkigal had never encountered another IC before meeting her and Enlil. But it's possible it was a family member who went away before she was born. Maybe it was even someone she had already met in the future or something. We cannot dismiss such a strange possibility at this point.
Yayoi also hints at some trauma in Ereshkigal's past.
Anunnaki were "Anu's companions". This might be punning on the Japanese word "nakama", which does indeed mean "companion".
Wait, Meg didn't get a biocomputer? What does this mean? Her Shadow continued its role after Meg's death. Would it, perhaps, have less of her due to her not being as fully integrated without a biocomputer? Or to put it another way, would her "soul" not be there?
What Ea said about reality is interesting, though. "Reality is also real." In route D, Ea was saying that realspace and cyberspace would eventually become one, or something like that. These two responses seem to reflect opposing attitudes. One would think someone who refused to get a biocomputer would not be in favor of a fully "mixed reality" future like what Ea was predicting. Based on this (as well as Ishtar's opinion of her in route C), Ea seems to be quite distinct from Meg.
(BTW, I'm borrowing that term, "mixed reality", from Professor Steve Benford of University of Nottingham. You can watch one of Brady Haran and Sean Riley's many educational computer-related interviews, this one on pretty much the topic we're on, which features said professor.)
Despite her saying herself that she couldn't know HE's response to what she says, she manages to predict the one thing he does say, and he says it as though he's expecting an answer, even though he believes she won't respond. How odd.
One of Masayuki's family members is apparently someone named "Kana". Probably the wife who was mentioned. Don't know if it's relevant, but I'll try to remember.
ENUMA ELISH
(Or Enûma Eliš. The Babylonian creation myth.)
Yayoi has made a recording, but she seems to be addressing someone specific. It wouldn't be Hinata, as he knows her already, but she has to introduce herself. Is it HE, then? It seems odd for some reason. Perhaps because he doesn't show much of a personality, it's hard to think of him as a person. Also, something she says at some point gave me the impression the recording wasn't meant for him alone.
I totally understand what Yayoi says about the straightforwardness of computers. Now, some people reading this might be surprised by this view and might instead view computers as very mysterious and capricious. I hear this view quite a bit. I think what this stems from, though, is not a fundamental capriciousness of computers. Rather, it is due to a mismatch in the mindset of a person with the nature of the software they use. At some level, they are expecting (probably reinforced by the interface and other factors) the software to behave somewhat like a human, when in reality it behaves more or less like a machine, albeit often a very complex one.
However, people with mindsets like Yayoi's and mine see computers more as the machines they are and are driven to learn about how they work. Any observed capriciousness is usually due to either a hardware problem, a system so complex that its behaviors interact in complex and perhaps incorrect ways, or an interface that is too complex or incompatible with the user's way of thinking. This is what I think, anyway.
"[Computers] don't try to lie or be vague about their problems." Again, this may be surprising to hear. She is speaking at a fundamental level. Computer systems do sometimes lie and/or be vague to their users. But this is not the computer's fault, but rather it is due to the software, the instructions of the programmer(s). Those of us who care enough will try to avoid such software.
A server in Baghdad. What a coincidence ...or more likely not at all. Baghdad is very near the site of ancient Babylon, just 85 km (53 mi) north of it!
"As long as you can't go back in time, that is." Oh, you.
"It really was quite the coincidence that her handle came from the same roots as ours." Was it really?
I'm not going to try to get into what the different colors Imaginary Vision sees mean, nor what might cause people to emit the various energies that are perceived as those colors. But I do wonder what the significance of ICs being colorless is.
Who was Ereshkigal looking for? Is it someone we've seen already? It sounds as if it was no specific person, as Yayoi goes on to say Ereshkigal had never encountered another IC before meeting her and Enlil. But it's possible it was a family member who went away before she was born. Maybe it was even someone she had already met in the future or something. We cannot dismiss such a strange possibility at this point.
Yayoi also hints at some trauma in Ereshkigal's past.
Anunnaki were "Anu's companions". This might be punning on the Japanese word "nakama", which does indeed mean "companion".
Wait, Meg didn't get a biocomputer? What does this mean? Her Shadow continued its role after Meg's death. Would it, perhaps, have less of her due to her not being as fully integrated without a biocomputer? Or to put it another way, would her "soul" not be there?
What Ea said about reality is interesting, though. "Reality is also real." In route D, Ea was saying that realspace and cyberspace would eventually become one, or something like that. These two responses seem to reflect opposing attitudes. One would think someone who refused to get a biocomputer would not be in favor of a fully "mixed reality" future like what Ea was predicting. Based on this (as well as Ishtar's opinion of her in route C), Ea seems to be quite distinct from Meg.
(BTW, I'm borrowing that term, "mixed reality", from Professor Steve Benford of University of Nottingham. You can watch one of Brady Haran and Sean Riley's many educational computer-related interviews, this one on pretty much the topic we're on, which features said professor.)
Despite her saying herself that she couldn't know HE's response to what she says, she manages to predict the one thing he does say, and he says it as though he's expecting an answer, even though he believes she won't respond. How odd.
#78, originally posted May 30 2016, 08:58 AM
Route E—Session 17, part 6: Mutsuki Joins
While Yayoi continues telling her long story of Babylon's beginnings to HE, Hinata dreams of the moments when Mutsuki decided to leave home.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
ENUMA ELISH
I had a thought: there's a phonetic similarity between "Kaguya" and "Sakuya". Is there any significance to that, or is it just a coincidence?
"If there's an invisible moon..." Interesting idea. This is not literal, of course. However, if you think back to that one insert movie showing a black disc moving across the full moon, it sounds a little like what Mutsuki is saying here, albeit not as invisible.
"...a directive...demanding the suspension of service." What exactly does that mean? Did the provider terminate them for some violation, or because of some other problem? Or was Anunnaki unable to pay the bill? Or was there some other reason?
"No one knows when, where, or how [Mutsuki and Tsukasa] had grown acquainted." Mutsuki wrote some details in her diary. But in all likelihood, Yayoi knows nothing of that.
Quantum computers again. I've already explained my understanding of their limitations when the concept was mentioned in Mutsuki's diary, so I won't repeat myself; I'll just remind everyone about it.
Hmm. HE fears quantum computers for some reason. What would that be? I guess in some ways, he must be a being similar to Shadows. He too can go back in time, due to not being bound by certain things. Does such a machine pose a danger to him/Shadows? Or does something dangerous come from them? I do remember there was Marduk, which originally ran on eXarch's quantum computer. And then Marduk's existence was ruined when eXarch withdrew and shut down the computer. We've barely heard anything about Marduk since route A. The last (only other?) time I remember seeing mention is in this route; it's one of the names that appears briefly when HE is being downloaded to Hinata. I thought before that there might be something up with Marduk after going through what it did.
I had a thought: there's a phonetic similarity between "Kaguya" and "Sakuya". Is there any significance to that, or is it just a coincidence?
"If there's an invisible moon..." Interesting idea. This is not literal, of course. However, if you think back to that one insert movie showing a black disc moving across the full moon, it sounds a little like what Mutsuki is saying here, albeit not as invisible.
"...a directive...demanding the suspension of service." What exactly does that mean? Did the provider terminate them for some violation, or because of some other problem? Or was Anunnaki unable to pay the bill? Or was there some other reason?
"No one knows when, where, or how [Mutsuki and Tsukasa] had grown acquainted." Mutsuki wrote some details in her diary. But in all likelihood, Yayoi knows nothing of that.
Quantum computers again. I've already explained my understanding of their limitations when the concept was mentioned in Mutsuki's diary, so I won't repeat myself; I'll just remind everyone about it.
Hmm. HE fears quantum computers for some reason. What would that be? I guess in some ways, he must be a being similar to Shadows. He too can go back in time, due to not being bound by certain things. Does such a machine pose a danger to him/Shadows? Or does something dangerous come from them? I do remember there was Marduk, which originally ran on eXarch's quantum computer. And then Marduk's existence was ruined when eXarch withdrew and shut down the computer. We've barely heard anything about Marduk since route A. The last (only other?) time I remember seeing mention is in this route; it's one of the names that appears briefly when HE is being downloaded to Hinata. I thought before that there might be something up with Marduk after going through what it did.
Route E—Session 17 (full)
#79, originally posted Jun 3 2016, 04:45 AM
Route E—Session 18, part 1: Birth of Code
Ereshkigal thinks about Gilgamesh. Meanwhile, Yayoi's long story continues, giving some insight into Enlil's actions.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
ENUMA ELISH
Ereshkigal is talking about Gilgamesh, who was previously identified with Hinata (and HE with Enkidu). Going to where he is? Where is that, anyway?
And then HE is Apsu (or Abzu)? I guess they mix up these analogies in whatever way is convenient. And what about Kingu? That's the first we've heard of that one. Let's see... Apsu is murdered by his children. Marduk kills Tiamat and her son Kingu. Forms heaven and earth from her body, and the first humans from Kingu's body. What would heaven and earth symbolize here? And, similar to Ereshkigal's last question here, who might this Kingu be?
If these "intracerebral pleasure substances", as they call them, disappear faster than synthetic narcotics, does that mean they're less addictive? I'm not sure, though.
Let me get this straight: Enlil was expecting Marduk to effectively destroy the world and then rebuild it in some way. And she was so sure it wouldn't go badly for her and the ICs she cares so much about. It's surely a double-edged sword. With an entity like that, you just can't predict what it will do. Even if it has primarily the experiences of ICs, would it do the right thing, whatever that is? Would it do what you wanted it to? The one thing I think might have helped is Mutsuki's interactions with it. She may have provided a moral influence. But how much of that did Marduk retain after the "flood"?
I thought so. HE too thinks the Ea's Null is acting strangely, based on the real Meg's attitudes. Here's an idea: maybe Enlil tampered with it. Is this so hard to imagine? She has admin access, so that should provide her the privilege to do so, though whether she has the skill, I have no idea.
"Monstrous maelstrom of strife" is a bit of a mouthful. :D
Pretty much as I thought for a while, Mutsuki is living in an endless dream. What would that be like, I wonder? In some cases, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad experience. Not necessarily a good thing overall, but that's another matter. In this case, though, is she not being forced to experience what a lot of players experience? How has that changed her? Well, she still seems to be okay, judging by how she was "speaking".
But apparently, she needs to be rescued. The question is, how? Enlil said that just pulling her out of the pod would kill her, and that scene with the pod filled with blood seems to support that, unless she died for some other reason. Also, her being separated from Enigma seemed to have catastrophic consequences for the world. What world exactly? I'm guessing even that will be difficult to determine.
Ereshkigal is talking about Gilgamesh, who was previously identified with Hinata (and HE with Enkidu). Going to where he is? Where is that, anyway?
And then HE is Apsu (or Abzu)? I guess they mix up these analogies in whatever way is convenient. And what about Kingu? That's the first we've heard of that one. Let's see... Apsu is murdered by his children. Marduk kills Tiamat and her son Kingu. Forms heaven and earth from her body, and the first humans from Kingu's body. What would heaven and earth symbolize here? And, similar to Ereshkigal's last question here, who might this Kingu be?
If these "intracerebral pleasure substances", as they call them, disappear faster than synthetic narcotics, does that mean they're less addictive? I'm not sure, though.
Let me get this straight: Enlil was expecting Marduk to effectively destroy the world and then rebuild it in some way. And she was so sure it wouldn't go badly for her and the ICs she cares so much about. It's surely a double-edged sword. With an entity like that, you just can't predict what it will do. Even if it has primarily the experiences of ICs, would it do the right thing, whatever that is? Would it do what you wanted it to? The one thing I think might have helped is Mutsuki's interactions with it. She may have provided a moral influence. But how much of that did Marduk retain after the "flood"?
I thought so. HE too thinks the Ea's Null is acting strangely, based on the real Meg's attitudes. Here's an idea: maybe Enlil tampered with it. Is this so hard to imagine? She has admin access, so that should provide her the privilege to do so, though whether she has the skill, I have no idea.
"Monstrous maelstrom of strife" is a bit of a mouthful. :D
Pretty much as I thought for a while, Mutsuki is living in an endless dream. What would that be like, I wonder? In some cases, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad experience. Not necessarily a good thing overall, but that's another matter. In this case, though, is she not being forced to experience what a lot of players experience? How has that changed her? Well, she still seems to be okay, judging by how she was "speaking".
But apparently, she needs to be rescued. The question is, how? Enlil said that just pulling her out of the pod would kill her, and that scene with the pod filled with blood seems to support that, unless she died for some other reason. Also, her being separated from Enigma seemed to have catastrophic consequences for the world. What world exactly? I'm guessing even that will be difficult to determine.
#80, originally posted Jun 5 2016, 05:15 AM
Route E—Session 18, part 2: Superposition
After becoming newly depressed about almost everyone she knew being dead, Yumishtar has an encounter with LEM and waxes quantum theoretical about her Null/Una state. HE makes a late night munitions order at Death's Crossroads.
Notes:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Must remain unsolved
I wonder if those malfunctions of house management systems were how Code killed some of Criminal's families.
Interesting. I remember Ishtar saying in route B that dividing one's attention between realspace and cyberspace puts quite a strain on the mind. Is Yumi able to do so anyway without problems, or she just doesn't care? Or perhaps, having Ishtar inside her makes it easier to do?
I feel compelled to point out that this "superposition" is probably almost impossible, if you try to apply quantum theory. "Observation" does not mean what most people think it means. The superposition requires that the wave function remain indeterminate, and for that to happen, the system with such a superposition must have no interactions with anything else in the universe (except so-called "weak measurements" might be okay). That requires very strong isolation, because even a miniscule amount of interaction, through any means whatsoever, could leak enough information to ruin the state. It doesn't matter whether humans learn this information.
The fact that LEM is pretty much constantly interacting with the outside world makes such a vaguely Schrödinger's Cat-like superposition dubious at best. I say, "vaguely", because at least the cat in the thought experiment is supposed to be isolated. Well, it's true that we cannot tell whether the human who might or might not still be behind LEM is alive or dead. But that is at the level of human cognition, which is many orders of magnitude less subtle than quantum phenomena. In short, I believe this is very much a misapplication of the relevant science.
"But that would mean that quantum theory, which should only be applicable to the micro world..." A misconception. The correct phrase is not "applicable to", but rather "noticeable in". It is applicable very nearly everywhere. It is only not noticeable in the macro world because the uncertainties of all the zillions of particles average out. The effects could only seem to be "eroding into our observable macro world" if the magnitudes of uncertainties become astronomically greater, a fundamental change. And if such a thing did occur, things would become much weirder (and probably extremely unpleasant, at the very least) than what's happening in this story.
It would not be completely correct to say a program (or any piece of information) has no volume. All information is embodied in a certain amount of energy. If that energy takes the form of fermionic matter, then the Pauli exclusion principle applies (essentially, the particles cannot occupy the same space, although that's not exactly what the princple says). Things like electrostatic repulsion also apply to keep electrically charged particles separated. Since there must be a certain amount of such particles to embody the information, it can be said to occupy their volume.
Bosons (which include the force carriers such as photons and gluons) are not bound by the Pauli exclusion principle, so the only limits to their density would be one's ability to separate them in order to read the information, the amount of energy available, and the gravitational effect of that energy (although a truly gargantuan amount of energy is required to create a noticeable gravity well; just play around with E=mc2 and known masses of astronomical bodies to get an idea).
I wonder if those malfunctions of house management systems were how Code killed some of Criminal's families.
Interesting. I remember Ishtar saying in route B that dividing one's attention between realspace and cyberspace puts quite a strain on the mind. Is Yumi able to do so anyway without problems, or she just doesn't care? Or perhaps, having Ishtar inside her makes it easier to do?
I feel compelled to point out that this "superposition" is probably almost impossible, if you try to apply quantum theory. "Observation" does not mean what most people think it means. The superposition requires that the wave function remain indeterminate, and for that to happen, the system with such a superposition must have no interactions with anything else in the universe (except so-called "weak measurements" might be okay). That requires very strong isolation, because even a miniscule amount of interaction, through any means whatsoever, could leak enough information to ruin the state. It doesn't matter whether humans learn this information.
The fact that LEM is pretty much constantly interacting with the outside world makes such a vaguely Schrödinger's Cat-like superposition dubious at best. I say, "vaguely", because at least the cat in the thought experiment is supposed to be isolated. Well, it's true that we cannot tell whether the human who might or might not still be behind LEM is alive or dead. But that is at the level of human cognition, which is many orders of magnitude less subtle than quantum phenomena. In short, I believe this is very much a misapplication of the relevant science.
"But that would mean that quantum theory, which should only be applicable to the micro world..." A misconception. The correct phrase is not "applicable to", but rather "noticeable in". It is applicable very nearly everywhere. It is only not noticeable in the macro world because the uncertainties of all the zillions of particles average out. The effects could only seem to be "eroding into our observable macro world" if the magnitudes of uncertainties become astronomically greater, a fundamental change. And if such a thing did occur, things would become much weirder (and probably extremely unpleasant, at the very least) than what's happening in this story.
It would not be completely correct to say a program (or any piece of information) has no volume. All information is embodied in a certain amount of energy. If that energy takes the form of fermionic matter, then the Pauli exclusion principle applies (essentially, the particles cannot occupy the same space, although that's not exactly what the princple says). Things like electrostatic repulsion also apply to keep electrically charged particles separated. Since there must be a certain amount of such particles to embody the information, it can be said to occupy their volume.
Bosons (which include the force carriers such as photons and gluons) are not bound by the Pauli exclusion principle, so the only limits to their density would be one's ability to separate them in order to read the information, the amount of energy available, and the gravitational effect of that energy (although a truly gargantuan amount of energy is required to create a noticeable gravity well; just play around with E=mc2 and known masses of astronomical bodies to get an idea).
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